Q&A: Lin Kee

Do you feel that you can speak up against discrimination and do you feel that others in your workplace would speak up if they were witness to discrimination?

In most situations, I reckon it's not the aspect of whether or not I can speak up that becomes a topic of dilemma, but more so how to speak up in a way that is constructive. With regards to speaking up, I feel I can speak up to discrimination, although I'd like to acknowledge that I have always been someone who felt nervous but comfortable with questioning things and not everyone feels the same way. I've learned various techniques and approaches to this from others since working in government. Call me an idealist, but I do not think anyone sets out to be prejudiced.

The importance of having another person who can exemplify what non-discriminatory behaviour looks like is helpful, especially someone with a similar background to the person in question.

How do we maintain informal networks when working from home becomes more prevalent?

Stuff quizzes have become paramount to most government employees' daily schedule. It only takes about 5-15 minutes, but it is a great opportunity to learn about my workmates outside of work stuff. Besides that, I like having 'coffee' catch-ups where we literally just chat – or a watercooler chat where everyone posts random things on. Those wee chats before starting a meeting/stand-up can be helpful as well. :-)

What was your biggest surprise when you started working in the public service?

I had a preconceived perspective that government was very systematic, rigid, slow and outdated. I initially started out at SWA and was amazed at how much work was happening behind the scenes with data science. Since then, I've worked at Stats NZ and ACC, I am constantly amazed at how open to change the teams I've been in are. The way I would describe it is that the government is like a huge array of clouds in the sky. Together they make the beautiful blue canvas we see; and it looks stagnant. When we're among the clouds (e.g., in an airplane), we notice just how fast the clouds are moving! Government and its agencies are a well-oiled machine for sure.

I agree that we need to be authentic and vulnerable in the workplace. However, many people in the workforce disagree - what can we do to challenge these ideas?

Essentially there are a few things to consider here; people may have varying ideas of what true authenticity and vulnerability in the workplace looks like. Therefore, my idea of being vulnerable may too emotionally intensive for some others. Some individuals may find that being their authentic self is about feeling comfortable enough to be quiet at work, etc. I'm going to take a page out of Howard Moskovitz's theory around choice and spaghetti sauce (2 min video here). With that being said, I would say before challenging those ideas, we can use the spaghetti sauce case study as inspiration to identifying what it is about these ideas that people feel uncomfortable with. Through providing options, choice – we can get a better idea of what aspects of 'being authentic and vulnerable in the workplace' people may have preference against/towards and then tailor our initiatives around that. Hope that helps! I am personally really passionate and interested in this topic and would love to catch up with anyone who'd be keen to have a chat about this.

In the workplace I still sadly see additional challenges for young women of colour compared to others. How can junior and senior wāhine help address this?

There's a really good book I've read recently, How Women Rise by Marshall Goldsmith and Sally Helgesen and it is phenomenal in being able to articulate and break down the challenges that women face and how we as individuals might be encouraging/how we can work towards challenging it. To add on to that, I would say that the knowledge that other wāhine are there to support each other does wonders for a person's confidence and ability to grow. Senior wāhine – if you notice a junior wahine doing a good job/think they would be up for a challenge/task/role, please have that chat with them.

I think a lot of time we tend to underestimate ourselves/how much we can challenge a workforce. I may not be a woman of colour but as an Asian I definitely felt uncomfortable for a long while in the workforce. At Stats NZ I met amazing managers, Sarah, who was of a similar cultural background to me, and Wayne, a manager who also immigrated from Malaysia. Being able to have frank conversations with them about my experiences, being able to be honest, not have to filter, share my worries/uncertainties with them and trust that they would provide constructive feedback/share their own experiences too.

In conclusion: human and humane conversations help.